Re: [hobbit] Sorry... I had to vent

[Jerald Sheets <questy (at) gmail.com>]

I agree completely, Vernon.

The only way I would change what you have to say (were I saying it) is that even though you're a level 1 or 2 user, there's no reason you cannot apply level 6 or 7 research before asking a question.  That research will make your level 2 question into a level 4 or 5 question, and everyone will benefit.

We should endeavor to all:

a) help whenever we can
b) research our question thoroughly before asking here
c) lather, rinse, repeat


There have been times where some have even jumped on here and asked a question then demanded speedy response because they have a deadline.  

eh?  Do I get a stipend?  :)

It's all about being civil, being helpful, and looking after your own abilities and research before looking for help.

Granted, we do have a number of internationals on the list, and grace is always applied liberally.  However, "it doesn't work, how do I make it work" is not an acceptable question.  


As you can tell, I've had a very large amount of sleep.  :)


Good discussion, everyone.  I love Vernon's comments here.


--j


On Mar 24, 2010, at 2:22 AM, Vernon Everett wrote:

> Hi all
> 
> Without pointing any fingers, I would like offer some advice.
> Let's be nice.
> 
> Yes, I agree, some questions can be annoying, and have been asked and answered over and over, but we need to remember we were all ignorant once.
> Yes, There are multiple repositories of knowledge, but that is also part of the problem. Where to look.
> I recall a few years back, I was looking for an SMF file for Hobbit on Solaris 10. I searched, and couldn't find one, so I wrote my own and proudly posted it to the list, only to be told one already existed, and was available in the only place I didn't look. (It's still there http://xymonton.trantor.org/doku.php/addons:hobbitsmf - Thanks for that one Galen.)
> 
> I always think of list members in terms of profieciency, and measure it by the questions and sometimes the answers I see. Then I imagine the proficiency on a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is a total noob, 10 would probably be Henrik.
> If you think of yourself as, for the purpose of this demonstration, a level 8 hobbit user, then you would be stuck on most questions coming from most level 9 or 10 users, but quite capable of solving problems from a level 1 to 7. However, the level 1 to 5 questions appear trivial to you, and annoy you.
> Ignore them. A level 3 question is obviously a challenge to a level 3 person, but a delight for a level 4 or 5 to answer, and thus contribute constructively to the list.
> By the same token, even level 1 questions have their value.
> Not only do they allow moderate level users to actively participate in the list, and in so doing, reinforce their own knowledge, more importantly, it makes the level 1 noob feel that this is a friendly group of nice people willing to help them get started.
> There is nothing worse than trying to get involved in something that looks good, interesting and fun, only to be told to fsck-off! Some of us may have experienced that in life, some not - I can assure you though, it's not a good feeling.
> 
> In the past, when the question has been trivial, and covered in the man pages or similar documents, I have not given the answer, but pointed them to the respective page or mail archive entry. The "teach a man to fish" approach. (Search for my name and "endian" for an example of this in the mail archive)
> 
> If a question frustrates you, hit the delete key. Somebody else will respond.
> If a user frustrates you, set up a filter. That's why we have them.
> But lets be nice, even to those who might not deserve it. Besides the reasons listed above, it's just good karma.
> 
> Let me end by saying, that we should terminate this thread very quickly, before we have a flame war.
> 
> Regards
>      V
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