[Xymon] Xymon, community, updates, and directions (was Re: Is this thing on?)
Jeremy Laidman
jeremy at laidman.org
Tue Aug 15 04:55:39 CEST 2023
Thanks JC for taking the time to chime in. Your efforts in recent years
breathed new life into the project, and so many of us have benefited
greatly. It would've been nice to have a way to have my employer contribute
financially to a fund that made it more viable for you/Henrik to spend time
on maintenance.
I agree with others on the need for SSL/TLS these days, or at least some
form of encryption. Many organisations now require comms to be encrypted,
or at least authenticated, using robust, modern cryptography. In my case,
we're periodically asked about our comms, and receive raised eyebrows when
we respond.
I am also sympathetic to the notion that if we have to rely on
encryption on our network, then we have bigger problems. But there are
still reasons why encryption is desirable. For example, when monitoring a
device connected via someone else's network. Or even just to slow down an
attacker that has made her way onto our network, and perhaps even set off
alarm bells when she tries to talk BB in cleartext and without
authenticating, with the attempts generating log messages. Another way to
view it is, "perfect is the enemy of good". I'd prefer to have encryption
and authentication on a network that has an APT ferreting around, than not.
The work-arounds are not ideal for a few reasons. But I suspect the main
one is that there is no consistent and standardised workaround, that every
deployment that requires it tends to use. If everyone simply used the
stunnel solution, then it would end up being well supported by the
community, with lots of help, documented experiences, how-tos and best
practice guides. But I find myself not wanting to make a poor choice, so I
haven't made any choice. I suspect the stunnel option is probably the best
option, but I have a feeling there will be a performance impact.
Not wanting to de-rail the conversation, the main point is that
encryption/authentication is an important factor for me, and the missing
feature is present in alternatives to Xymon. Some of the proposed
alternatives are inadequate, but are still given credence due to the
ticking the "security" boxes. If Xymon had this one feature built-in (or
standardised), and had the occasional bug fix, then it would be treated
with much less scepticism.
J
On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 at 11:48, Josh Luthman <josh at imaginenetworksllc.com>
wrote:
> What is there works beautifully for me. To say I appreciate the work that
> everyone has done just doesn't begin to describe how it helped us grow.
>
> In the near future I'd love to see a Rocky package. SSL would be kinda
> neat I guess, but I subscribe to the notion that if you've got a mitm on
> your system's network you have other problems to worry about anyway.
>
> On Mon, Aug 14, 2023 at 6:39 PM Damien Martins via Xymon <xymon at xymon.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Damien Martins <damien at makelofine.org>
>> To: "J.C. Cleaver" <cleaver at terabithia.org>
>> Cc: Damien via Xymon <xymon at xymon.com>
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2023 00:38:28 +0200
>> Subject: Re: [Xymon] Xymon, community, updates, and directions (was Re:
>> Is this thing on?)
>> If i had to vote for something: bring the code to a git(hub?) repo so
>> people with required skills and time could contribute.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Damien Martins
>> Le 14 août 2023, à 22:57, "J.C. Cleaver" <cleaver at terabithia.org> a
>> écrit:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> Catching up with the thread from these past few days, this seems the
>>> proper place for me to chime back in.
>>>
>>> While it's possible to call xymon simply a quiet, stable project (which it
>>> is, with many installs simply and quietly doing their jobs in the
>>> background out there), it's also very fair to say that the project -- or
>>> at least the plans I (and, I'll assume, Henrik) had for it has indeed
>>> reached a stalling point.
>>>
>>> That doesn't mean it can't come out of a stall! But it does mean it takes
>>> effort to resume work on.
>>>
>>>
>>> Following on with others' comments, the Xymon codebase is somewhat...
>>> intense. When I was performing near-daily performance enhancement and
>>> tweaks for Xymon for $dayjob, there was a solid ability to stay in the
>>> zone and I could add features as needed at a rapid clip. Since then, as I
>>> moved on to other positions and responsibilities, my day-to-day
>>> involvement with the code base dried up, and getting back into it can be
>>> difficult unless you're doing a lot of C elsewhere and not spending it
>>> cursing at kubernetes.
>>>
>>> In short, there's a significant ramp-up and re-ramp-up involved, as one
>>> might expect from any mature codebase. While the underlying documentation
>>> for use and administration is extremely thorough IMHO, an Intro for Devs
>>> document was something we never followed through well on.
>>>
>>>
>>> Development plans had at one point been something like:
>>> - direct SSL support and/or message signing (probably the most frequently
>>> requested things, for those for whom stunnel-wrapping was not an option)
>>> - IPv6 (some of which is working in the 4.4 alpha branch)
>>> - abstraction of remaining formatting to simple CSS to allow for skinning
>>> and dashboarding
>>>
>>> I'd also had in mind things like a JSON endpoint version of
>>> xymondx{log|board}, and a REST-based C shim .cgi, both of which could help
>>> folks integrating Xymon with other monitoring systems out there.
>>>
>>>
>>> Of course, the initial target was simply the forklifting of the many
>>> performance enhancements and tweaks from the Terabithia RPMs into the
>>> source tarball. This got pretty far there in the 4.4 branch, with only a
>>> few major components not integrated. However debugging those components
>>> and patches stalled out, especially with the need to maintain robust
>>> pan-*nix compatibility.
>>>
>>> That, ultimately, is where we are now.
>>>
>>>
>>> To kick things off: In the past, there had been requests to move the
>>> source to Github in the hopes of creating an easier onramp for patch
>>> submissions via PRs, bug reports, and the like. While I personally feel
>>> like SF and svn would still work, I think this probably deserves to be
>>> back on the table.
>>>
>>> In addition, Henrik had mentioned that we'll need a mailing list migration
>>> at some point coming up soon.
>>>
>>>
>>> Beyond that, to be honest I'm not sure what the next, best step is to
>>> take. Life had indeed gotten in the way, to follow from the comment below,
>>> as $dayjob+=4 and other responsibilities cropped up.
>>>
>>> I really welcome the entire community's input here going forward.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> J.C. Cleaver
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, August 14, 2023 09:58, Bruno Manzoni wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hellor Xymon Lovers I'm not a coder either, but I see there's quite a
>>>> bit of brains out there (and I think if there are enough of us we can
>>>> try to maintain and improve it). Perhaps the current officials could
>>>> first tell us what their plans are and how we could help them. On our
>>>> side, we can perhaps encourage them: it would be good to list what we
>>>> can bring to the project, as some have done! - I try to maintain
>>>> "devmon" (on the github repo) and some other xymon tool (I did try to
>>>> understand how devmon is integrate to xymon, but I am not an expert in
>>>> Xymon code) - I am a telecom engineer - I can give some some time - I am
>>>> an independent and I have some infra to play with - Usually I speak
>>>> swiss-french (so sorry for all my mistakes) Bruno
>>>>
>>>> On 14.08.2023 18:36, James Louis wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Is the Terabithia RPM also dead?
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Aug 14, 2023 at 10:03 AM Scot Kreienkamp
>>>>> <Scot.Kreienkamp at la-z-boy.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I would be OK with contributing some as well…. But that’s not
>>>>> what
>>>>> Xymon needs. Xymon needs caretaker(s) to keep it relevant. That
>>>>> means code updates to fix bugs, adapt it to new OS versions, etc.Â
>>>>> Otherwise it will fade away to obscurity like many other open
>>>>> source projects. I’m not a coder either, or I would gladly give
>>>>> some time to it.
>>>>>
>>>>> *Scot Kreienkamp | Senior Linux Systems Engineer | La-Z-Boy
>>>>> Corporate*
>>>>> One La-Z-Boy Drive | Monroe, Michigan 48162 |( (734) 384-6403 | |
>>>>> ) 1-734-915-1444 | Email: Scot.Kreienkamp at la-z-boy.com
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Rod <rodbass63 at gmail.com>
>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, August 14, 2023 10:56 AM
>>>>> *To:* Ralph M <ralphmitchell at gmail.com>
>>>>> *Cc:* Scot Kreienkamp <Scot.Kreienkamp at la-z-boy.com>; xymon >>
>>>>> xymon at xymon.com <xymon at xymon.com>
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Xymon] Is this thing on?
>>>>>
>>>>> I would like to continue the legacy. I'm not a developer but I'm
>>>>> willing to pay for hosting space and the domain name to keep it
>>>>> going for as long as I'm alive. Its kept me employed for a long
>>>>> time.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Aug 14, 2023 at 10:32 AM Ralph M <ralphmitchell at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been using Xymon at several different employers since it
>>>>> was BigBrother owned by a couple of guys in Canada. My
>>>>> current Senior VP wants Xymon to go away. He hasn't actually
>>>>> told me that directly, but I've heard it via another channel.Â
>>>>> We have SolarWinds on some machines, but I've never even seen
>>>>> the GUI for that. We're also distributing Oracle Enterprise
>>>>> Manager (OEM) to a bunch of machines. I don't know for sure,
>>>>> but I suspect a contracting company is whispering in my SVP's
>>>>> ear to sell support for OEM. In the meantime, my Xymon server
>>>>> has 878 days uptime and they're still trying to figure out how
>>>>> to install and configure the OEM agents. It's going to be
>>>>> tons of fun watching them try to replace all the little
>>>>> scripts I've written with OEM equivalents.
>>>>>
>>>>> @Cristoph - I don't know if I can use stunnel. It's a
>>>>> military-related company and there are all kinds of
>>>>> restrictions that sometimes even make sense.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ralph Mitchell
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Aug 14, 2023 at 9:41 AM Scot Kreienkamp
>>>>> <Scot.Kreienkamp at la-z-boy.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> No new release since 2019, no activity on the mailing
>>>>> list, I think it’s safe to say it’s flatlined. Sad to
>>>>> see
>>>>> it fade, I’ve been using it for a decade or more.
>>>>>
>>>>> *Scot Kreienkamp | Senior Linux Systems Engineer |
>>>>> La-Z-Boy Corporate*
>>>>> One La-Z-Boy Drive | Monroe, Michigan 48162|((734)
>>>>> 384-6403 | | )1-734-915-1444| *Scot.Kreienkamp at la-z-boy.com
>>>>> www.la-z-boy.com <http://www.la-z-boy.com>Â |
>>>>> facebook.com/lazboy <http://facebook.com/lazboy>Â Â |
>>>>> twitter.com/lazboy <http://twitter.com/lazboy>|
>>>>> youtube.com/lazboy <http://youtube.com/lazboy>
>>>>> Smaller LZB Only Logo for Sign.png
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Xymon <xymon-bounces at xymon.com> *On Behalf Of
>>>>> *Neil Simmonds
>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, August 14, 2023 5:29 AM
>>>>> *To:* xymon >> xymon at xymon.com <xymon at xymon.com>
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Xymon] Is this thing on?
>>>>>
>>>>> Is Xymon dying? No new release since 2019, There was a
>>>>> roadmap in 2015 that mention Versions 4.4 up to 5 but
>>>>> nothing seems to have moved on that.
>>>>>
>>>>> It feels like Xymon has become a static project that’s
>>>>> going to fade away. That would be a shame as I for one
>>>>> think it’s a great tool.
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Xymon <xymon-bounces at xymon.com> *On Behalf Of
>>>>> *Galen Johnson
>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, August 13, 2023 3:01 AM
>>>>> *To:* xymon >> xymon at xymon.com <xymon at xymon.com>
>>>>> *Subject:* [Xymon] Is this thing on?
>>>>>
>>>>> *[CAUTION]*This is an external email. Do not click links
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>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing since May seems a bit suss.
>>>>>
>>>>> =G=
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *Jim Louis
>>>>>
>>>>> Â Â Â Â Â \\\\||////
>>>>> Â Â Â Â Â \ ~ ~Â /
>>>>> Â Â Â Â Â | @ @ |
>>>>> *
>>>>> *--oOo---(_)---oOo--
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>> /“The part of life we really live is small. All the rest is not life,
>>>>> but merely time.†/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>> Xymon mailing list
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>>>> http://lists.xymon.com/mailman/listinfo/xymon
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Damien Martins via Xymon <xymon at xymon.com>
>> To: "J.C. Cleaver" <cleaver at terabithia.org>
>> Cc: Damien via Xymon <xymon at xymon.com>
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2023 00:38:28 +0200
>> Subject: Re: [Xymon] Xymon, community, updates, and directions (was Re:
>> Is this thing on?)
>> _______________________________________________
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