[hobbit] Sorry... I had to vent

[Tim Boyer]

On 3/23/2010 10:20 PM, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> I think it's more than that, guys, (and I totally reject both your premise and your conclusions, Jim)
>
> To be a viable, contributing member of any online "society", you also should offer something to the conversation.
>
> Since those who are "newbies" haven't any "intellectual collateral" to add to the conversation, they take part in the conversation by understanding the syntax, vis a vis, knowing the very basics as outlined in the documentation.
>
> If you come to the conversation wanting to do no footwork, not reading the documentation and asking to be spoon-fed all the answers, that is leaching.
>
>
> Let me use an example.
>
> If this were, say, a motorcycle enthusiast group.  Now say, that everyone starts talking about leathers and the need for various materials as protective panels in leathers and the science behind all that.  Now, let's say a new guy comes in and this particular motorcycle group has a wonderful glossary of terms, instructions on riding, mailing list history, and links to several of the technologies discussed on the group and asks on the list..  "What are leathers?".
>
> Is the impetus on the group to say leathers are....   or, is it better citizenry to say "you know, we have a ton of information you should probably read before trying to take part in this conversation...  maybe you should go do that."
>
> In the motorcycle world, that might take the form of "piss off, newbie".  It's just facts.
>
> In our world, it's RTFM (and I use it for it's technological significance in our world.  if you don't want to ready the fine manual, then don't.  If you want to ascribe profanity to the term, then YOU have ascribed the profanity.  This writer does not, keep those terms to yourself)
>
> The POINT is that there are MANY avenues of documentation that we have for this group.  Much too often these days on this list the questions are turning into "show me precisely how to do something that is clearly outlined in our documentation".  We need to roll back for a minute as a community and determine whether that is where we want to take the group.  If so, then perhaps this is not the place for me.
>
> For instance, I had a problem with RRD not graphing properly.  I went through our docs, and searched the mailing list.  When I couldn't find the answers I was looking for, I went to the rrdtool website and looked for more information on the nature of how rrdtool makes graphs.  I wanted to make sure i understood the entire workflow of how this stuff works both in and out of the Hobbit/Xymon framework to be sure that were I to come here and ask a question:
>
> a) I did my homework, and the answer was not obviously staring me in the face in all the usual places
> b) I had not overlooked a conversation clearly listing the answer in the list archive
> c) I had not fatfingered something in RRD-land, and it would never work given the documentation available on RRDtool.
>
> Then and only then would I consider posting a question and I would also outline all the things I'd read and done thus far looking for the answer, and then would pose my question.  If the answer would be more documentation, I would gladly receive that and continue to try and educate myself.
>
> Not once would I ever come to just have my question answered without doing any footwork of my own first.
>
> "Just give me the answer" is never good citizenship, and should not be encouraged.  From my very earliest dealings here on the list, I've tried to do so and I believe if you run a search, my contributions (even as a stone-cold newbie) speak for themselves.
>
> We should each endeavor to reject the urge for laziness and do everything we can to all help each other as much as possible, but it should never be ok to spoon-feed anyone.  That's my opinion.
>
> Ok, I've said my piece.  I'll crawl back in my home directory...
>
> --j
>

One of the mailing lists I'm on - forget which one - actually has a 
boilerplate that says 'Read this: 
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html before posting'.

Good advice, IMHO...

-- tim --

Tim Boyer
Chief Technical Officer
Denman Tire Corporation