<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>I agree completely, Vernon.</div><div><br></div><div>The only way I would change what you have to say (were I saying it) is that even though you're a level 1 or 2 user, there's no reason you cannot apply level 6 or 7 research before asking a question. That research will make your level 2 question into a level 4 or 5 question, and everyone will benefit.</div><div><br></div><div>We should endeavor to all:</div><div><br></div><div>a) help whenever we can</div><div>b) research our question thoroughly before asking here</div><div>c) lather, rinse, repeat</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>There have been times where some have even jumped on here and asked a question then demanded speedy response because they have a deadline. </div><div><br></div><div>eh? Do I get a stipend? :)</div><div><br></div><div>It's all about being civil, being helpful, and looking after your own abilities and research before looking for help.</div><div><br></div><div>Granted, we do have a number of internationals on the list, and grace is always applied liberally. However, "it doesn't work, how do I make it work" is not an acceptable question. </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>As you can tell, I've had a very large amount of sleep. :)</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Good discussion, everyone. I love Vernon's comments here.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>--j</div><div><br></div><br><div><div>On Mar 24, 2010, at 2:22 AM, Vernon Everett wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">Hi all<br><br>Without pointing any fingers, I would like offer some advice.<br>Let's be nice.<br><br>Yes, I agree, some questions can be annoying, and have been asked and answered over and over, but we need to remember we were all ignorant once.<br>
Yes, There are multiple repositories of knowledge, but that is also part of the problem. Where to look.<br>I recall a few years back, I was looking for an SMF file for Hobbit on Solaris 10. I searched, and couldn't find one, so I wrote my own and proudly posted it to the list, only to be told one already existed, and was available in the only place I didn't look. (It's still there <a href="http://xymonton.trantor.org/doku.php/addons:hobbitsmf">http://xymonton.trantor.org/doku.php/addons:hobbitsmf</a> - Thanks for that one Galen.)<br>
<br>I always think of list members in terms of profieciency, and measure it by the questions and sometimes the answers I see. Then I imagine the proficiency on a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is a total noob, 10 would probably be Henrik.<br>
If you think of yourself as, for the purpose of this demonstration, a level 8 hobbit user, then you would be stuck on most questions coming from most level 9 or 10 users, but quite capable of solving problems from a level 1 to 7. However, the level 1 to 5 questions appear trivial to you, and annoy you.<br>
Ignore them. A level 3 question is obviously a challenge to a level 3 person, but a delight for a level 4 or 5 to answer, and thus contribute constructively to the list.<br>By the same token, even level 1 questions have their value.<br>
Not only do they allow moderate level users to actively participate in the list, and in so doing, reinforce their own knowledge, more importantly, it makes the level 1 noob feel that this is a friendly group of nice people willing to help them get started.<br>
There is nothing worse than trying to get involved in something that looks good, interesting and fun, only to be told to fsck-off! Some of us may have experienced that in life, some not - I can assure you though, it's not a good feeling.<br>
<br>In the past, when the question has been trivial, and covered in the man pages or similar documents, I have not given the answer, but pointed them to the respective page or mail archive entry. The "teach a man to fish" approach. (Search for my name and "endian" for an example of this in the mail archive)<br>
<br>If a question frustrates you, hit the delete key. Somebody else will respond.<br>If a user frustrates you, set up a filter. That's why we have them.<br>But lets be nice, even to those who might not deserve it. Besides the reasons listed above, it's just good karma.<br>
<br>Let me end by saying, that we should terminate this thread very quickly, before we have a flame war.<br><br>Regards<br> V<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>
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